Lessons Learned Scaling a Startup, with May Mobility’s CPO Tom Tang

Mo Fathelbab:

Welcome to today's episode of People and Strategy. I'm your host, Mo Fathelbab, president of International Facilitators Organization. People and Strategy is a podcast from the SHRM Executive Network, the premiere network of executives in the field of human resources. Each week, we bring you in-depth conversations with the country's top HR executives and thought leaders.

For today's conversation, I'm excited to be joined by Tom Tang, CPO of May Mobility, a manufacturing firm that designs and develops autonomous technology vehicles.

Welcome, Tom.

Tom Tang:

Hey. Thank you so much, Mo. Great to be on the show here today.

Mo Fathelbab:

Great to have you with us. Tom, I want to start with hearing a little bit about yourself. You mentioned that you have a non-traditional people leader storyline. What's your path to the field of HR?

Tom Tang:

Yeah, definitely. Appreciate you asking. I think the story here is I've been in the field of human resources for just coming up on a decade. What's funny there is if you had asked me 10 years ago if I had ever seen myself in a people leadership or HR leadership role, I probably would have told you no, but I'll explain why.

My background is post-college, I actually focused the first five or so years of my career in business operations. I worked in a variety of roles on the biz op side of things. And then shifted into doing corporate development, strategic partnerships, as well as fundraising.

I think a couple of common threads through those things. One is I really enjoyed working both on the ground, a little bit in the weeds with my sleeves rolled up, as well as zoomed out at a 30 or 50,000-foot level. I also really enjoy building meaningful relationships with people.

But what ended up happening, as I was getting ready to transition into HR is I got a little bit burned out of maybe just making deals happen, or the transactional part of the relationship. When I was ready to make a change, this is just under a decade ago now, I had a really good friend of mine who recruited me to a company where initially the founders were looking at me to potentially take on an ops role or a partnerships role. I said, "I think I'm ready to do something different." When we discussed how we could help the company be successful, we realized that what really mattered was building an amazing place to work and attracting some of the best talent from all over the world to come and build both the technology and the business.

I was really excited by that challenge. I said, "Hey, I'd love to take that on." I ended up falling into a people or HR role basically from there. It was a little bit of trial by fire, a lot of great learnings and lessons along the way. The organization that I joined was maybe 60 or so employees at the time, and then we scaled up to 2500 in less than three years. Definitely a lot of fun being at the helm of that hypergrowth, in terms of overseeing all things HR.

Then I think during that time, I realized I had found my calling. Have been really passionate about the space that we're all talking about here today. Yeah. That's what led me to the role I am now in at May.

Mo Fathelbab:

Just out of curiosity, you guys have a product that is running around on the streets that is driverless at the moment?

Tom Tang:

We do, yeah. Really exciting actually, because if you had asked me this question a few days ago, the answer would have been we are currently in one city in the United States that is fully driverless. That's in Sun City, Arizona. We launched that site in December of last year. That was our first fully driverless available to the public deployment. Then a few days ago, we just launched our second in Ann Arbor, Michigan, which is actually our hometown. That's where our company is headquartered. There are now two cities in the US where you can ride in a May Mobility vehicle without a driver. Then there are six additional cities in the US where we currently still have a safety operator for a variety of reasons. Eight cities total.

Mo Fathelbab:

Okay. Well, I have not done it yet, but one day I will take the plunge. It feels like a bungee jump, but I will do it.

Tom Tang:

Oh, it's fun. You're going to have to come visit with me or something, and we'll go on a ride together. Yeah?

Mo Fathelbab:

All right, sounds good. In your current role as chief people officer, what kind of transformation have you seen since you've been at the company, what, since 2020?

Tom Tang:

Yeah. Let me pick up the story from where I left off in the introduction, if you will. I had jumped into my first HR role at a company called Cruise based in San Francisco, also building autonomous vehicles. As I mentioned, helped to scale the business to over 2500 employees in about three years.

In late 2019, there was a realization in the autonomous vehicle industry that this was no longer a sprint race in terms of getting the technology out into the world and getting people to use the technology. I think there was a mindset shift in terms of how companies operated, also how investors were viewing putting additional dollars into this sector.

At the beginning of 2020 when the shift happened, I wasn't thinking about going anywhere else, but I was introduced to Edwin Olson, who's the founder and CEO here at May Mobility. Ed and I started chatting, and he helped me to really see three things about May Mobility. One is that our technology is incredibly differentiated and unique, in terms of being able to scale and being able to be deployed much faster than I think a traditional autonomous vehicle stack. Second was our business model in that we weren't waiting. A lot of startups want to build the technology first, and then they go and try and build a business later. May was always really pragmatic in building a business alongside the development of the technology, and we would grow the business as the capabilities of the tech expanded. Then the third thing for me was just I really picked up on tremendous passion with the team here at May.

May was actually similar in size at the beginning of 2020 to my last company. I think was employee 65 or something like that. But as I came in the door, Ed convinced me to come and build a company with him. As I came in the door, unsurprisingly to many people leaders, given that May was just a three-year-old startup at the time, we had a mountain of what I call HR debt. Engineers know about technology debt. There was a lot of HR debt at May.

In terms of the transformation that we've experienced in the four-and-a-half years since I've been here, it's really been top-to-bottom, if you will. As you can imagine, joining a company that was three years old, there was a lot of work to do. I came in and immediately identified some things that we needed to update, in terms of leveling and titling, compensation. Both in terms of broad base, as well as for executives. Also, just our brand narrative and our employer brand presence. We were smaller compared to a lot of other AV companies, so we needed to quickly accelerate some of those things.

Then last but not least, just general people infrastructure. When I came in the door, we had one recruiter, on generalist. Nobody here even knew what an HR business partner was. As you can imagine, there was a lot that needed to get done, but it was also really fun for me to be able to build and start from scratch again, and to shape what we have today.

Mo Fathelbab:

Great stuff. Earlier you mentioned three lessons that you learned while working at May. One of them of course is how to scale the team. Another one is how to tackle HR debt, which I think you just touched on. And then how to advocate for support at the board level.

I'd like to start with the first one. How to scale a team?

Tom Tang:

I think for me, coming into May in summer of 2020, realizing that there was so much to be done. I feel like a lot of people leaders run into this same thing. Where they step into their roles, and there's so much that has to be done, and most of it needed to be done yesterday. Where do you even begin?

My approach was really coming in the door, recognizing where we were, where we needed to go, and then being bound by the fact that there just wasn't enough hours in the day or people. I really took on this approach of recognizing it would take more time to build the right competencies, skills to really grow the ability to do some of the things that we needed to do in-house. I needed to also hire and grow my team. But again, that takes some time. There was this idea that I had to buy or rent the ability while I grew it in-house. I did very rapidly spin up capabilities through third party agencies, different tools and technology partners to be able to do some of the work that just had to happen in that moment while I began to build out the team that I have today.

As we quickly ramped up the ability through third parties, I also started to look for people to join the team. When those two moments crossed over, we were ready to dial down the external and really ramp up the internal, that was the shift that happened. That took about six to nine months, though.

Mo Fathelbab:

Let's discuss lesson number two, how to tackle HR debt. Tom, can you describe for us what HR debt means in the first place?

Tom Tang:

Yeah. Sure, Mo. I view HR debt as, again, coming from an engineering organization for the past decade, HR debt is one of those things where, if you don't focus on the specific competencies or abilities within your organization from an HR standpoint, you will continue to fall further and further behind. And the impact to the business in a negative way will compound, if you will.

What's an example of that? I think one of the things that is front-and-center for a lot of HR leaders is compensation. If you don't have a robust market-aligned comp program, that creates a certain level of debt that will accumulate over time. What do I mean by that? If you're not able to hire in talent at market and continue to reward and recognize them at market, everyone knows that they have options. There's a higher likelihood that people will leave the company. While healthy turnover is good, you don't want to lose some of your best and your brightest. That's a very simple example.

Mo Fathelbab:

What's your lesson for fellow leaders on how to tackle HR debt?

Tom Tang:

I think my biggest piece of advice would be just start. I know that sounds simple or silly, but just putting one foot in front of the other and chipping away at that debt was the best thing that I think I decided to do, both here at May as well as at my last organization.

We talked a little bit earlier about coming into this company when it was three years old, and there just being a lot of HR work that needed to be done because no one was thinking about these things. That's okay, that's why the company and the board brought me on, it was to do these things. Putting one foot in front of the other, what I did was very quickly assess where were the gaps. Where were the biggest areas of debt or need? Then prioritizing that, and really just focusing on moving the needle and chipping away at it. Very quickly, in about six to nine months, we were in a much better place than when I joined.

Mo Fathelbab:

Yeah. Love it. Then the last is to do with advocating for strong support at the board levels. Please tell us what you learned in that regard.

Tom Tang:

Sure. Yeah. Ed and the May team brought me in at a pretty critical time, in terms of the company's history. When I joined in summer of 2020, what had happened six months earlier was we closed our Series B round of funding, which was led by Toyota who is a very important strategic partner of ours. The board at the time really charged Ed with finding a people leader like myself because they wanted someone who had, I would say, seen this movie before, in terms of the hypergrowth, the scale, and also someone who had HR experience and experience with the specific talent pool that we focus on here at May. It's a lot of really smart AI, machine learning, robotics engineers, software engineers, et cetera.

When I came in, there was already this idea that we needed to really supercharge the HR function here in order to be able to compete for talent to build the technology, to build the business. But at the same time, most HR leaders know, it's not easy to convince, whether your peer group of leaders to invest in HR, or board members. I spent a lot of time bringing people along in terms of helping them to understand what I had done before, what worked. And ensuring that they saw not only my vision and plan in terms of what we needed to do and how we would get there over the next several years, but also why there was a lot of tangible value if you will, in terms of investing in HR early.

In my first year, there was a little bit of a sentiment of, "Hey, we're growing the people function to be bigger than what the organization needed." But what I had to constantly fight for and remind people of is I'm not building the people team for what we have now, it's the people team that we will need two years from now, five years from now. We've been able to do that.

I think that that's why today, fast-forward four-and-a-half years, May Mobility now has over 300 employees. We have folks who work in 31 states in the United States. People in Japan, people in Canada. That same foundational people group that I was able to build early on because there was that level of support because they saw the vision is what's keeping the wheels on, if you will right now, and why we're continuing to have success.

Mo Fathelbab:

I think that's really one of the best arguments I've heard for investing in HR. We're not investing in what we need today. We have to invest in what we need tomorrow. I love that.

What advice do you have for fellow executives looking to scale their teams?

Tom Tang:

I think a few things come to mind. The biggest for me, because I've lived both sides of this, I would say being patient when it comes to finding that right hire, especially if you're making a leadership hire. I have been in a position where it feels like there's so much urgency, "We just have to get someone in the door to lead this function, to lead this team." In some ways, when it takes a little bit more time, you start to get a little bit desperate. Maybe you lower your standards a little bit, or your bar of, "Well, this person is good enough."

I think in that moment, the best thing to do, and I've learned this the painful way, is to not rush to get somebody close. But to really find that right fit, because when you don't, I think we all have stories about what happens. That's a lesson that I constantly remind myself of because even though we have a pretty robust people team today, I still spend a lot of my time networking with executive candidates, senior leaders, because again, looking to that future state, there's always going to be needs across our organization. I'm planning several steps ahead in terms of when we're ready to bring someone in.

Mo Fathelbab:

Tom, I think one of the things that you said earlier has to do with you chose this career path because of how important it is for you to build meaningful relationships. Tell me more about that, please.

Tom Tang:

For me, I found that when I was a fundraiser, deal closer, I wasn't good at it because I necessarily had the same traits as a lot of other sales or BD type people. That little bit aggressive, Type A, "I'm going to get after it, I'm always going to make the ask." My approach was always a lot softer, if you will, in the sense that I really took the time to understand who it was that I was meeting with, what the organization that that person represented cared about. What was important to them? Then I think I spent my time figuring out how do we craft an approach or a deal structure in which it's really a win-win?

I think I find a lot of personal joy in that in terms of we're getting to know each other, I'm understanding what's important to you. I'm sharing with you what's important to me, and we're finding a path forward together. That togetherness is something that's always really been motivating to me. The shift into the HR space, again, when I think about my role, it's how am I helping to attract really great people into the company? Once they're here, how are we supporting their growth, their development? Of course, retaining our best and brightest is important.

But again, the same thread through all of that is how are we as HR leaders, and myself in particular, how are we designing the right programs, moments, and touchpoints for people as they experience the different stages of both the employee lifecycle, as well as their personal journey? I've seen people here at May who joined the company fresh out of college who are now parents now, and homeowners. That's so cool to be able to be a part of that journey. That's what I really enjoy about relationships is that genuine connection.

Mo Fathelbab:

Yeah. Is there something that you do as CPO to foster relationships amongst the 300 employees?

Tom Tang:

I do. One of my favorite things is I like to be as present as possible. Many of our leaders here at May I think do this. If you ask folks at May, I think they'll tell you they see me a lot. Every time we have something going on in the company, I'm usually there. I love hanging out with people, getting to know them, spending time.

I also think it's just really important to help your employee population just view you as a person. I think I'm really proud of the fact that everyone at May knows that they can pick up the phone and call me, or send me a text and they'll hear from me right away. It's a big part of our culture. I think we're a very flat organization, but I've also gone out of my way to just make myself available, accessible. And also, at times role-modeling being vulnerable. So that, again, people view me as Tom, I'm a person just like you, as opposed to, "Oh, he's some C-level leader, or he's HR." I don't think anyone at May thinks about me in that way. Hopefully.

Mo Fathelbab:

Hopefully. I love that you used the word vulnerability. It's one of those things that certainly we're hearing more and more about. I'd love to hear from your perspective what it means and why you believe it's important?

Tom Tang:

Yeah. I define vulnerability in a few ways. I think one, I've found over the years as I've worked with other HR professionals, there's a sense to want to keep personal life and work life separate. There's definitely a lot of pros and cons to doing that, and there's a reason why that exists. For me, and this also goes to our hiring philosophy, I'm a big believer in role-modeling the same thing that we talk about with our employees, which is bringing my full self to work. Lots of people at May know about my life outside of May, and that's intentional. People know I love food, I love to travel. People know I'm a big car guy. Lots of people at May can tell you things about me and I love that. Again, I think that goes to that vulnerability of sharing more of myself.

I think another key part of being vulnerable is role-modeling what it means to be vulnerable in the workplace as well. I'm the first to admit when I've made a mistake. I'm the first to role-model, "Hey, I totally blew this up, or messed this up. Sorry. Here's what I've learned from it, or here's what we can learn from it together. Let's move forward." I've created intentionally this culture of psychological safety. People at May are not afraid to mess or make mistakes, especially when they see people like me, or Ed, or others doing the same. I think again, it humanizes and normalizes that that's an okay behavior as long as we learn from it. We have this notion here at May that it's great to make mistakes, let's just not make the same mistake twice.

Mo Fathelbab:

Love it, love it, love it. Tom, last question. What is one piece of advice that has shaped your work or life the most?

Tom Tang:

Yeah. I think for me, what I've realized is that I am at my best when I am working both with people and for an organization that has a mission that I'm passionate about. We touched on my career earlier. I've worked in the mental health industry, I've worked in education, I've worked in several for-profit sales type businesses. Along the way, each of those things has something in common in that what they were doing or what they're still doing today is something that, at that moment in my life, I really cared about.

I think for me, now being in the autonomous vehicle space, we have this idea that we're building this technology and these vehicles to be able to give people time back, to be able to help save lives. That's what drives me. So that even when I'm working long weeks or long hours, it doesn't feel like work to me. It feels like I'm doing something that will impact the people around me that I care about, as well as move the needle forward in terms of this broader mission that we have here.

I think that's probably the biggest piece of advice, and it goes back to maybe that saying of, "Do what you love." I feel like very much I'm doing what I love, so it's not work for me.

Mo Fathelbab:

Love it. That's where we'll end it for this episode of People and Strategy. A huge thanks to Tom Tang, CPO at May Mobility. You can follow the People and Strategy Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Also, podcast reviews have a real impact on a podcast's visibility. If you enjoyed today's episode, leave a review to help others find the show. Finally, you can find all our episodes on our website at shrm.org/podcasts. Thank you for listening and have a great day.