Beyond Borders: Lessons in Leadership from a Global HR Journey

Mo Fathelbab: [00:00:00] Welcome to today's episode of People and Strategy. I'm your host, Mo Fatalbab, President of International Facilitators Organization. People in Strategy is a podcast from the Sherm Executive Network, the premier network of executives in the field of human resources. Each week, we bring you in depth conversations with the country's top HR executives and thought leaders.

For today's conversation, I'm excited to be joined by Mai Lan Nguyen, SVP of HR North America Operations at Schneider Electric. Welcome, Mai Lan.

Mai Lan Nguyen: Thank you, Mo. Glad to be here.

Mo Fathelbab: It's a pleasure to have you with us. Mai Lan, I want to start with your incredible journey. Uh, if you could tell us a little more how you became in this, uh, incredible role, having started as an intern at Schneider Electric 21 years ago.

Mai Lan Nguyen: Well, I, uh, I am actually a lifer at Schneider Electric. So [00:01:00] I joined the company back 21 years ago, back in France, my home country. And, uh, I had an incredible journey where my dream was to build an international career and had the privilege to, uh, uh, hold several HR position in, uh, in China for three years, in Brazil for five years.

I relocated to Boston, Massachusetts in 2017. Uh, had various jobs, uh, as HR business partner, talent management leader. I also had, uh, for a year, uh, the responsibility of talent acquisition at Schneider Electric. And for the last six years, I've been, uh, leading HR for North America operation. Um, and it's been an incredible journey.

So, um, very, very, very, uh, privileged.

Mo Fathelbab: Sounds like a great journey. So along the way, I take it you speak French and English, of course, uh, Chinese and Portuguese as well.

Mai Lan Nguyen: Yes, I do. I forgot a bit of [00:02:00] the Chinese, but yes, I'm fluent in Portuguese and Spanish.

Mo Fathelbab: Incredible. Incredible. And so I'm just curious as to what differences in culture, uh, did you notice as you went from, you know, Europe to Asia to South America and then to North America?

Mai Lan Nguyen: Right. Well, you know, I, myself, I have, I was born as, you know, half French, half Vietnamese, right? So I actually grew up in, um, in a bicultural environment. And I think, you know, that gave me the knack for, um, that thirst of learning new culture and seeing the world. Um, I would say that, yes, the one thing I've learned is that, uh, every culture is different and the, you have to really embrace it.

Then if, uh, I take away, uh, one thing out of it is I have unlearned and relearned many, many things. To, you know, make an impact wherever I go, um, you know, Asian culture are probably more introverted than, uh, South [00:03:00] American culture are more extroverted, um, but I think, you know, when in doubt, the best thing you can do is just like research, ask questions and, uh, hold judgment and make assumption in a given situation.

And, uh, and I think I definitely. nurtured myself and my own identity, um, living in those different countries. I feel like I'm a citizen of the world.

Mo Fathelbab: For sure. And, uh, it's obvious. I'm wondering if you could think of any, uh, examples where you found yourself in a new culture behaving the old way, where you, you're like, Oh, I better adjust this particular behavior.

Mai Lan Nguyen: Um, I guess, you know, I live in the United States now and, you know, obviously, uh, Um, I am, uh, I am French. So sometimes, you know, in work environment, you know, my French side can come up maybe more than, you know, uh, the way I, I behave in an American culture. Uh, so, you know, I tend [00:04:00] to be sometimes a little bit, uh, Pessimistic or, you know, uh, looking at the, the glass half empty, uh, and that's what also I really do love about, you know, uh, what I've learned living here, uh, with my family is that, you know, there's an incredible ability to, uh, be optimistic about the future.

Uh, so, you know, I, I, I sometimes during the day, um, my mood changes depending on the situation.

Mo Fathelbab: All right. Well, I appreciate you, uh, sharing that with us. Of course, I think that happens to many of us in one way, shape or form. Um, so let's talk about Schneider Electric a bit. Has the company changed much in the last 21 years?

And if so, in what way?

Mai Lan Nguyen: Absolutely. Schneider Electric has a very, very, uh, you know, uh, big story, right? It was created back in, uh, the 1836. 19, 1836. Yeah.

We've been in the United States for more than 125 years. And I would say, you know, it's a company that [00:05:00] has moved from, uh, you know, an industrial manufacturing, uh, um, setup to now being a technology company that is focused on, uh, um, leading the digital transformation in energy automation and, uh, and, uh, and the energy transition.

So we definitely are, uh, a provider and a partner to our customers. Uh, in their sustainability journey, um, and it's been absolutely fantastic to, uh, to see that transformation, uh, over the last 20 years for me.

Mo Fathelbab: And what do you think has been critical in ensuring that transformation happens successfully?

Are there a few things that come to mind?

Mai Lan Nguyen: Yeah, well, you know, it's a, it's a mix of external growth and internal growth, but, uh, in all of that, the constant is people. Uh, so, you know, you need to have the right people with the right skill, the right domain expertise, the right engagement. Uh, you need to have the right [00:06:00] culture, uh, so I think that's probably the most important thing.

And that's, that's what we say, um, at Schneider, right? Uh, great people make a great company, right? And, uh, and that's definitely the one thing that you can't copy is the culture. So that's something that we, we do work really, really hard on nurturing and protecting because that's one of the enablers of growth and transformation.

Mo Fathelbab: How do you nurture and protect the culture?

Mai Lan Nguyen: I think it has to be part of, uh, uh, the strategy of the company as, as one of the key foundation of it, um, leading from the top and making sure that it's hardwire in the processes and the systems. Of the, the company. So if I take HR, the way we manage performance, the way we listen to our employees, the way we craft employee experience, um, the way we assess our [00:07:00] talent, how we promote them, uh, the, the criteria we, uh, we use is to make decisions, have to not necessarily, not just look at the what, but also the how, and it has to be aligned with the values.

Um, of Schneider, our values at Schneider are impact and, uh, and we, uh, we, we make sure that it's first, you know, front and center in everything we do. So it's a very simple answer. It's not easy to practice every single day. That's why we're here. But the, the, the leading from the top, the role modeling. Um, it's very, very important.

Mo Fathelbab: Yeah. Thank you. So in our, uh, preparation, uh, conversation, you talked a bit about return ship and some of the unique things that, uh, you're doing at Schneider. Can you tell us a bit about that?

Mai Lan Nguyen: Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, like any company in the world, right. One of our biggest, biggest challenge is to attract talent and.

And we are competing for great people. Um, there's [00:08:00] many great, uh, industries everywhere. So one thing we've noticed is that, um, over the course of the year, we might be not looking at all the sources of talent that are out there. And one sources that we knew was that, especially with COVID, um, that there are people who actually have decided to leave the workforce for many reasons.

Uh, but they have skillset prior to leaving the workforce. They used to work, uh, while they're away from work, they just, they, they develop as well, a lot of, uh, a lot of experiences. So we thought, um, while we were. Going out of the crisis that it would be amazing to create a return ship program at Schneider.

And, um, that's been absolutely amazing to, uh, figure out a way to recreate opportunities for people who want to go back into the corporate world to, uh, choose us as their new anchor. And we have a way to onboard them into the company. [00:09:00] Uh, to give them the right training, the right mentoring and the right coaching.

And, uh, after six months, if things are really, really going well, we convert them into permanent hires. Um, and, uh, and we help them, uh, recreate, uh, a new, a new, uh, a new chapter in their career. Uh, and we have, uh, the, the great retention and attrition. Um, uh, where people really, really appreciate that opportunity and they're very engaged and, uh, and they come with a very different, uh, you know, path, which, uh, which is part of creating a diverse work environment with people, um, with different backgrounds.

So I, I actually love that we do a campaign every year. So I invite the people, the audience who's listening to look at our website and, uh, and, uh, and, and check for when is the next returnship campaign to refer people that they know that might be open to go back to work, [00:10:00] uh, and consider us and apply.

Mo Fathelbab: And another story that, uh, we talked about was, uh, during Hurricane Helene and, uh, how you all worked with, with, uh, veterans.

Can you tell us about that?

Mai Lan Nguyen: Definitely, you know, if you look at, uh, at the world today and, you know, what happens currently in SoCal is, uh, heartbreaking, but we do see an increased amount of weather events impacting our communities, uh, in the United States. So this is something that is really dear to our heart.

And when a hurricane Ilean took place, um, we do have, uh, you know, people in, uh, in, uh, in the Carolinas and actually a group of veterans of Schneider electric together with the footprint project, which is an organization that we, we partner and sponsor through our North America foundation, um, Went on site to actually build micro grids, which is, you know, making sure that we can provide access to electricity and [00:11:00] energy for the people who are impacted.

And, you know, to me, that was an incredible example of where the purpose of Schneider Electric, what we do and our people really come together to make an impact on the community. So, um, we have many, many example of it, but that was one of the most, uh, um, engaging, engaging stories that, uh, that we saw. And, uh, I'm very, very proud of that.

Mo Fathelbab: Great story. Um, so something else you said that struck a chord with me was, uh, being kind on people and hard on problems. I'd love to maybe hear more about that and, and how you, uh, how you make that happen. What culturally enables that to happen.

Mai Lan Nguyen: Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I won't take the credit for, for this idea.

I actually was very privileged to work with different leaders who have taught me how to think, uh, that way. Um, but you know, we, we do, we [00:12:00] do. What we mean by being kind on the, on the people and hard on the problem is the culture we're trying to build at Schneider is a culture of being one team. And, and we believe that to enhance collaboration, you have to be kind with one another.

And it doesn't mean like being nice all the time. I think we owe it to our people to be intellectually honest. And it really means building a culture of feedback, feedback in the moment, feedback, well given and well received so that you can really build that. Growth mindset that we all want to see in people.

Um, so being kind on people, hard on problems, it means that ultimately we want, we all want the same thing, right? We want to reach, um, our business objective. We want to execute on the strategy. So we tend to say to the people around us that, you know. We might disagree about the problem, but it doesn't mean we disagree with one another, like as, as people.

So I'm not against you. You're not against me. Uh, [00:13:00] we just have a different perspective about the problem that we need to solve. So how do you make sure that, you know, that principle of being hard and relentless to solve issues for our customers? While at the same time, working collaboratively together on the same, on the same, on the same things.

So it's very, very, you know, again, it's easy to say it's hard to practice every day. And I think it's our job as leaders to actually, you know, break those walls. One of the things I think you can do it well is by, uh, circulating your talent. So, you know, you have to make sure that you create flows where people can work in different parts of the organization so that you create the empathy.

And in my example, you know, I, I had different jobs in HR, I was a business partner, I led talent acquisition. And I think that, you know, having that experience gave me a different level of empathy towards what it is to be a recruiter. [00:14:00] Um, and I think it helps me, um, put myself in the shoes of other people that I have to work with to actually work in collaboration.

Mo Fathelbab: You know, I think that's a really interesting spin on empathy as it relates to what it is people have to do in their roles. And I think that's really fascinating because often I hear empathy defined a different way and it's, you know, about bringing your whole self to work and being understanding of people's circumstances outside of work, I would imagine that's also part of your culture.

Mai Lan Nguyen: Yeah, definitely. I think, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a skill that we try to develop into our leaders and I develop in myself with the caveat that you have to make sure you keep a balanced, uh, way of empathizing with someone's circumstances to avoid any bias in how you make your judgment and decision.

Um, but yeah, I think. I think there's no one size fits all and [00:15:00] being empathetic is also part of creating inclusive workplace, right? Like, uh, let's take an example. You might want to consider going part time. And I think, you know, for a very long time, we thought that going part time was for working parents.

But actually, I think it's a, it's a benefit. It's a way that can benefit any type of talent or generation. If you're early in your career, you might want to take a bit of part time because you have, you know, a hobby on the side. Um, if you're a working parent, maybe yes, you, you do, you do need to step out a little bit and you need to reinvest time, uh, managing the family.

And if you're late in your career, you might want to find a way to transition. Not, you know, zero to 100 or, you know, I think that's what I love about how we can craft employee experiences is one benefit can really, really, depending on the persona, be relevant, right? As long as you tell the right story.[00:16:00]

Mo Fathelbab: Yeah. So I want to go back to what you mentioned, as it relates to intellectual honesty and feedback on the spot in the moment. And this sounds incredible to me, and I encounter a lot of people that are scared of feedback, that won't give it, that don't want to hear it. How do you overcome that? And, and do you think everybody at Schneider absolutely lives by this?

Or, uh, like the rest of us, are you just trying to get people to move in the right direction so that we can have these more honest intellectual conversations?

Mai Lan Nguyen: I would not say that we're there yet. I think it's a journey. Uh, I see many leaders and many people around me practicing that really, really well, but I also, in my line of work, have to manage those situations where feedback has not happened, but I would say like feedback, uh, given in the moment or at the right, uh, at the right timing is something that, you know, [00:17:00] if you do that.

You're not making a problem bigger than what it actually is. If you, if you wait on not providing feedback to someone, you actually don't really care about that person. It's my, my belief, right? If I really care about you, I, I have to tell you, Hey, in that meeting, in that situation, you I saw you doing that and here's how I felt.

And then I give you an opportunity to actually take that into account. And do something about it. And it doesn't matter what it is. But at least I've given you, um, some insights about what a behavior can have. And I think that's what we're trying to do by providing as much training, learning moment as possible, uh, for people to understand that feedback is not something to be afraid of, but it's something to actually welcome.

It's a gift. Uh, we say it's a gift, right? Um, [00:18:00] yes, it's, it's hard, but. Uh, more time than not, you know, people later on, like a few years later, came to me and actually thanked me for the feedback because that was a moment where, um, it helped them actually do something different about, you know, uh, a challenge that they were facing.

So I think, you know, you can't manage performance if you don't let people know where they stand in the given situation and give them an opportunity to do

something about it. If you don't give that feedback. You don't give them, you don't give that person a chance to actually do something.

Mo Fathelbab: I love that.

Feedback is a gift. I've, I've been, uh, saying those words for a long time. Feedback is a gift. Without feedback, uh, you're shooting in the dark, so to speak, right? Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Um, let's talk about, um, designing flexibility in your workforce. That was something else we touched on, and I thought it was fascinating what you shared.

Uh, can you please share that with our audience?

Mai Lan Nguyen: [00:19:00] Yeah. Um, you know, I think when I look back at my tenure in that job, I think COVID was definitely a defining moment where as HR practitioner, we really had the opportunity to have a strong voice at the table, uh, with our peers in the business. And uh, and I think, you know, it was, uh, to me and my team, a way to rally.

Uh, our leadership team towards what matters the most, which is protecting, um, lives and livelihood, uh, during a health crisis. It wasn't a financial crisis, right? So we were all very, very, very keen on making sure that we would protect jobs, uh, and protect the people of Schneider Electric. Um, and. When you say that, like, you know, we came with so many, so many ways to actually create some flexibility and what I find amazing.

So part time is one of the example, uh, but we also created what we call the recharge break. [00:20:00] Those benefits today are part of our. Benefit our offers on those are great, great, uh, benefit that people who decide to join Schneider actually tell us that's the reason I came the ability to buy time off and to leave for 6 to 12 weeks fully paid.

Um, to go on a sabbatical is something that people love because, you know, uh, they tell me three years from now, I might want to go, you know, in a different country and, uh, you know, do a, a trip, the trip of a lifetime that I've been postponing, or I might want to spend the summer with my, my kid who's going to go to college and, and have, uh, you know, an amazing time with them.

Um, So that flexibility, what we've done, that was at the time a way to create, um, mechanism to manage our business, have actually helped us preserve very high employee engagement, [00:21:00] sense of belonging. And are today part of what makes us a great company to work for. And we're recognized on the market for, for those, uh, for those attractive benefits that we offer.

Mo Fathelbab: It's impressive. And, uh, I could see that Sabbatical must be French influenced. Is that right?

Mai Lan Nguyen: Uh, I guess so. I guess that's, uh, that's something that, uh, is more common in Europe. And definitely, uh, we managed to find a way to, uh, to fund this mechanism, co fund it with our employees. Uh, so yeah, Mo, you're, you're spot on.

Mo Fathelbab: Well, I love it. I love it. That's the benefit of cross cultural companies, right? Uh, so Mai Lan my closing question to you, what is one piece of advice? that has shaped your work or life the most?

Mai Lan Nguyen: I think the best advice I've gotten, it's to always stay curious. Um, and, and, and always look at things, um, in an open mind so that you can [00:22:00] learn something about it.

So that's, that's a big advice because when you take that approach of curiosity, I think it opens many, many doors. Um, and that's an advice I keep very dear to my heart. And the second is doing the right thing is never the wrong thing. And, uh, for the audience and the people who are practicing HR and supporting, um, leaders, um, we have to deal with very complex situation.

And my best advice was like, you know, when in doubt and when managing that ambiguity, um, always think about, you know, What's the right thing to do? And that helps me gain a lot of clarity.

Mo Fathelbab: Wonderful. Amazing. Thank you, Mai Lan. And that's where we'll end it for this episode of People and Strategy. You can follow the People and Strategy podcast wherever you get your podcasts.

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