Empowering Employees as They Age, with AARP's Marjorie Powell

Mo Fathelbab:

Welcome to today's episode of People and Strategy. I'm your host, Mo Fathelbab, President of International Facilitators Organization. People and Strategy is a podcast from the SHRM Executive Network, the premier network of executives in the field of human resources. Each week we bring you in-depth conversations with the country's top HR executives and thought leaders. Today we're recording live from the Visionaries Summit in Austin, Texas, and I'm excited to be joined by Marjorie Powell, CHRO and Senior VP at AARP. Welcome Marjorie.

Marjorie Powell:

Good morning and welcome to meet. Thank you Mo, and I'm really glad to be here.

Mo Fathelbab:

We are honored to have you with us. So I understand AARP is the biggest nonprofit in the world, is that correct?

Marjorie Powell:

That is correct. We have 38 million members. We have about 60,000 volunteers. We have an office in every state, the Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico, and we also have about 2,800 employees and counting.

Mo Fathelbab:

How does it feel to be the CHRO of the largest nonprofit in the world?

Marjorie Powell:

It's probably the most fun I've ever had in my career. It's the mission. It's the mission. Our mission is so great to help people choose how they live as they age, and to really drive that purpose home, to allow an individual to choose to age with dignity, with grace, with empowerment, with class and adventure. That's probably the best feeling in the world.

Mo Fathelbab:

I'll tell you, I remember turning that magic age when I got that mailing from AARP and I was like in denial. I'm like, I'm not ready.

Marjorie Powell:

Well, you know what? Aging is a gift.

Mo Fathelbab:

It is a gift.

Marjorie Powell:

It is a gift. And if you're lucky...

Mo Fathelbab:

Better than the alternative right?

Marjorie Powell:

Exactly. And just the best thing that you can ever have because aging very healthy, having a lot of mobility and stability and adventure in your life, being able to contribute to the world for a long period of time and live your purpose and passion. That's what it's all about.

Mo Fathelbab:

I love that.

Marjorie Powell:

Yeah.

Mo Fathelbab:

So tell us your career path. How did you get to the top of the largest nonprofit in the world?

Marjorie Powell:

Well, I actually started my career in higher education. I worked for a very large research, comprehensive research institutions like Michigan State University, a large land grant university, Wayne State University, which is an urban university, urban institution, one of the largest urban medical campuses in the country. And then to a Catholic Jesuit University at Georgetown, University of Maryland, which is a part of a huge system.

Mo Fathelbab:

My alma mater.

Marjorie Powell:

Exactly. And there's probably about 147,000 employees for the state university system. And I was at the health science campus, which is the founding campus, and it was the largest revenue producing campus for the research that it did. $1.3 billion in research. Yeah, yeah. And then into the greatest non-profit that you ever want to listen to, National Public Radio, NPR. So I had a lot of fun there. Got to go downstairs and hear a Tiny Desk anytime I wanted. So that was very fun.

Mo Fathelbab:

That's amazing.

Marjorie Powell:

Yeah. And then I ended up at NPR, from NPR into AARP, which is the largest non-profit in the world. So my entire career has been with mission-driven organizations. That's just a part of my blood. It's a part of my passion and I love seeing my work make instant impact. That is the most rewarding thing in the day to go home and know that you've touched people's lives and made them better.

Mo Fathelbab:

I love that. So not everybody might know what Tiny Desk is. Can you take a minute? Tell us about that.

Marjorie Powell:

Well, Tiny Desk was created by a wonderful guy named Bob Boylan at NPR, and he actually started having concerts at his desk with artists. And it started by finding a lot of, I would say indie type artists, up and coming folks that you really didn't hear about. And now he Tiny Desk features some of the largest artists in the world. They've had people like T-Pain, rapper, they've had Babyface, Kenneth Edmonds. They've had, what's his name?

Mo Fathelbab:

I think they had one with Sting I remember.

Marjorie Powell:

Keith Urban. Yeah, Sting. They've had some of everyone there. And you go downstairs and it's right there at his desk. It's like an instant studio and the staff can just go and listen to the music and just be a part of the vibe. So it's pretty cool. Yeah.

Mo Fathelbab:

It is pretty cool.

Marjorie Powell:

Yeah.

Mo Fathelbab:

So I want to just pick your brain. How different is HR in a university context as compared to an organization like AARP?

Marjorie Powell:

Well, it's the same really. Employees are employees. That was one of the most difficult things that I had in higher ed was trying to convince a faculty member that they were an employee and they would always say, "Oh, but I'm special." I'm like, "Yes, you're special. But the IRS doesn't think so. There's no law that says every employee except for faculty, you're still an employee technically." So it's the same way. You just have to operate it differently.

The way I describe being a CHRO at a university though, is that universities are like running a small city. Most of the universities are so large, the ones that I worked at, they have their own zip code and people realize that we have everything on the campus, our own post office, transportation, police services, EMS, hospital, housing, food service. And the president is pretty much like the mayor. So it's almost like you're working in the mayor's cabinet and then you have over two, three, 400,000 visitors that come to your campus every day to utilize those services. So you're operating it like a small city and it's open 24/7, 365.

So that was the complexity of it is what made it very easy for me to transition into a large organization like a not for profit like NPR, which had over 900 member stations, billions of listeners, putting out podcasts and products and media. It was just a change of understanding media culture versus academic culture and then going to AARP where we are serving a different mission, but just as complex. AARP has three or four affiliated charities. We have AARP Foundation, we have Wish of a Lifetime, which is a similar to Make A Wish for children, but it's Make a Wish for older people. And we also have OATS, Older Adult Technology Services, which trains and introduces technology to the older population and helps them become proficient in that. And we're scaling those programs across the country.

And then we also have a legal counsel for the Elderly, which is a small nonprofit that's focused in DC, that helps individuals who are over the age of 60, 65 under a certain income level with legal issues as far as housing, non-discrimination, things that if they're being facing with eviction or any of those matters, there are lawyers there that help them and do that work for them pro bono, and also file lawsuits on their behalf. It's a lot of great work. And then you have the parent, AARP the parent, and then we have a private company, AARP Services Inc., which is the one that manages and makes the partnerships with all those great branded products. That we use that revenue to fund our mission. So things like United Healthcare, the Hartford that you see for AARP, those that monies, those royalties go to fund our mission. So that's a private company, a 401(c) 3, so that they are for profit, but the rest of the parent and the other charities our 401(c)(4) and 401(c) 3s. So it's very complex in that regard.

So being CHRO of all of that entity is a lot of fun, a lot of challenge. There's not a boring day.

Mo Fathelbab:

And I could see the smile as you say it's a lot of fun.

Marjorie Powell:

Yeah.

Mo Fathelbab:

Love it.

So one thing I read is that the average age of the employee AARP is 50, but in the country it's 39. I'm wondering if that is purposeful.

Marjorie Powell:

Well, actually our middle segment, the largest segment of our employment, yes, is the age of 50 to 65. And that is purposeful. We are a company that doesn't discriminate, but we also have emerging talent as we call them. Those individuals that are 18 to 30. The sweet spot of the average age of the employee that we hire is actually 44 years of age. And we also have some seasoned employees that are in their seventies and even 80. So we have employees that are always contributing. It's wonderful to have those five generations in the workplace.

Mo Fathelbab:

Amazing. Let's talk about AI in the workplace. So I know that it's really affecting a whole lot of us right now in a positive way. How is AARP using AI for those that are over 50 to help them live their best lives?

Marjorie Powell:

Well, at AARP for all of our staff, we have taken an approach in the company to embrace the change. We are able to use this technology to reach our members where they are and very personalize it. So to be able to personalize 38 million members data points to the way that they would like to communicate with you, what kind of information they'd like to receive, because we have a plethora of benefits and services for that membership, that has been revolutionary for us because we've always wanted to be there and to be what they wanted us to be and needed us to be for them. So it's been able to help us really personalize that touch and that has made our engagement levels grow and skyrocket with the way that they interact with us.

Mo Fathelbab:

And have you been able to reduce staff as a result of AI or are you just delivering a better service with the safety?

Marjorie Powell:

We are delivering a better service. We've embraced it in that we took a bottom-up approach. We selected an AI tool. We actually use Copilot from Microsoft. And what we do is we allow our employees to embrace it from where they sit to experiment with it. We created communities of practice, so that when we first launched those, an AI community of practice, over 200 employees up for it. When the employees get together, they share insights, they share ways they're using the tools, how they're engaging in being able to write prompts, Generative AI prompts to do their work, and then they're able to share with colleagues across the enterprise who have similar jobs than them and what's working and what's not. So we've taken a fun approach to it.

Just like most companies, we are worried about boundaries and governance around it. So we set that up pretty early. We just had a process and we still have it that employees that they want to use it to go into work that will go externally. They go through the governance process of use case approval. We made it very simple and easy to do and we've curated those so that other employees are able to go in this system to see what type of use cases have already been approved that they may use. So it's been a very exciting and fun time for AARP and we're allowing the employees to help inform us on how this technology is going to transform their jobs. Yeah.

Mo Fathelbab:

What challenges Marjorie, I'm wondering, has AI brought to the HR field?

Marjorie Powell:

I believe the challenge really has been mostly that we have to just really be intentional about privacy, the use of that and working very closely with our council on privacy issues and the way that our data is being used in the system, particularly PII data and then or health data of an employee. I think some of those challenges are still being emerge, you know emergent, and so that's an issue there.

I think that we also have to be intentional about how we use AI to do our work so that it's nondiscriminatory. DEI is very important for the business. So making sure that when we are using this tool, it is not unintentionally or intentionally discriminating or creating bias in the work.

Some companies have chosen to use it for like talent acquisition to do to screen applicants. AARP has chosen not to do that because we don't think that the technology is mature enough to be able to not insert age bias into the process. So we do encourage companies to use the human effect for that. And so we still use our talent acquisition staff to screen our applicants and provide that service.

But using it to create Boolean searches to find the right talent across that vast talent pool that's out there, it's really been life-changing for my talent acquisition staff. They can zero in on the right skills and talent immediately and even go after the talent that's not even looking in the marketplace to try and sell our company to them as a great place to work and a great career path for them.

Mo Fathelbab:

So that is one great benefit of using AI in HR. Are there any others?

Marjorie Powell:

Well, there are a lot. You can use it to quickly respond to your internal customers able to bring those quick responses back. We also are developing chatbots. My department is about to roll one out that's going to be all things HR for staff to be able to ask about their benefits, employment policies, anything that they need to do related to HR will take a lot of time off my staff answering the phone, responding to emails. We're going to ask them to try and use that. And the wonderful thing about the technology is that it grows and continues to learn the more you use it. So it's going to really help us allow my staff to be able to work at a higher level and increase their strategic thinking at each level of the organization.

Mo Fathelbab:

Amazing. So yesterday at Visionaries Summit, we had our economist terms economists, Justin Ladner, talk about the demographic changes that are coming and of course one of them is the aging population. How do you foresee aging population affecting the workplace of tomorrow?

Marjorie Powell:

Well, this is not only a national problem, but it's also a global problem. But here in the United States, the people are living longer and that means they're going to want to contribute longer and stay in the workplace. The population that is the only one that is slated to grow by 2030 is the age of 70. And I don't think a lot of people realize that.

The 50+ community is a huge economic engine. They are right now contributing approximately about 8.2 billion dollars to the economy. And that's supposed to, I think, triple, 26.2 billion dollars in the next by 2050, I believe. And so you have this large population of individuals that have wealth that are contributing to the GDP. They are also very innovative. They are working longer, they are coming very skilled and talented. They are reinventing themselves and going into different types of careers because these are the people who have also refined themselves in one career but have chosen to either, I call it going to semi retirement probably and open a business. And they also are a large population of individuals that are opening small businesses after they leave their large jobs that they've had for many years.

So this is a population that most employers should be seeking to tap into. They're coming skill ready and a lot of them are not necessarily wanting the top job. They want to continue to contribute and they'd be great individual contributors to any organization. With the shrinking labor force and the issues that we are having, we're going to have to figure out a way to upskill and re-skill your staff. And so this population are constant learners, continuous learners, and always want to reinvent themselves so they're perfect for the upskilling technique, but also re-entering the workforce at higher rates because they've retired or have decided to shift their career path. So this is going to be very important for most companies to tap into.

AARP has an employer pledge program and that employer pledge program are for companies who are committed to making sure that they are seeking to eradicate ageist practices in their workplace and thinking and are committed to engaging with the 50+ workforce and community. And so we have approximately, I think 38,000, not 38,000, 3,800, excuse me. Employers that have signed on to that program and the number's growing because they see the importance of hiring this demographic.

Mo Fathelbab:

Yeah. Marjorie, what tips do you have for supporting multi-generational workforces?

Marjorie Powell:

I would say that to embrace it, to really make sure that when you are pulling teams together, that you are making sure that your teams are rich in age diversity, and that they are able to learn and to grow and be innovative together. To make sure that when you are doing your hiring, that you tap that a workforce that is re-entering. That older, that 50+ workforce who are coming in. And I would also say engage in skills-based hiring. Don't look at the longevity of the person's resume, but whether or not they have the skills to do the job.

Mo Fathelbab:

Love it. So some rapid fire questions for you. You ready?

Marjorie Powell:

Sure.

Mo Fathelbab:

All right. What's the one thing that you do to start your day off on the right foot?

Marjorie Powell:

I think the first thing I do every morning is I take some time, at least a good 15 minutes to just meditate. After waking up and when the house is still, still and quiet, getting into that quiet place it's always a great way to clear the mind. And then when I come out of it, I feel like it opens me up to all kind of creative thinking and ready to accept whatever is ahead of me for the day.

Mo Fathelbab:

I love that. If you could work anywhere in the world for one year, where would it be?

Marjorie Powell:

Anywhere in the world? I would probably say I would want to work in Italy. I'd like to work remotely, countryside in a villa and be able to take wonderful cooking classes and spend the weekend exploring vineyards and drinking lots of wine.

Mo Fathelbab:

That sounds lovely.

Marjorie Powell:

Yes.

Mo Fathelbab:

Is there one skill you look for when you're hiring?

Marjorie Powell:

I look for curiosity. I love people who are curious, who like to look at things from different vantage points and seek to understand, not to answer. I love a curious mindset.

Mo Fathelbab:

Love it. What's your favorite book?

Marjorie Powell:

Wow, that's a hard one cause I have so many. Oh, wow. Oh, Mo why'd you ask me that question?

Mo Fathelbab:

Why'd you ask me that question?

Marjorie Powell:

The Compound Effect.

Mo Fathelbab:

Ooh.

Marjorie Powell:

It's a very small book, but that book was life-changing. It is a book that helps you both personally, professionally, financially, helps you with relationships. It just teaches you about doing simple things repetitively and the compound effect of the results and how that exponentially will change your life.

Mo Fathelbab:

I got to read that.

Marjorie Powell:

Yes.

Mo Fathelbab:

Hadn't heard of it. Thank you. That sounds amazing. Last question, what is one piece of advice you were given that has shaped you personally or professionally?

Marjorie Powell:

I think the best piece of advice that I was given was to be the kind of leader that you would want to see and to work on that every day. Yeah. So I think that's the best advice that I would give, just to be that great leader I would always want for myself and work on being that for everyone else.

Mo Fathelbab:

I love that. I actually have one more question. Is that okay?

Marjorie Powell:

That's okay.

Mo Fathelbab:

What is one takeaway you've had so far from the Visionaries Summit?

Marjorie Powell:

The biggest takeaway that I think that we received, and I think it was from the session that we had from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, was that there are a lot of positive things on the horizon with the workforce. That we just need to be creative and look for it and look for those untapped areas that we hadn't sought out before, like the individuals in disability community, and use the technology to reach those individuals. Returning citizens as I call them, those formerly incarcerated, that have gained skills and talents while they have been incarcerated, and now are returning back to the citizenship that they deserve. Tapping into those workforces and bringing them into the fold and not keeping those barriers up that we had in the past, but also using the technology to do that.

Mo Fathelbab:

Amazing.

Marjorie Powell:

Yeah.

Mo Fathelbab:

Thank you Marjorie. And that's where we'll end it for this episode of People and Strategy. A huge thanks to Marjorie Powell, CHRO and Senior VP at AARP. You can follow People and Strategy podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Also, podcast reviews have a real impact on a podcast's visibility. So if you like today's episode, please give us a review so others can find the show. Thank you for listening. You could find all our podcasts on our website at SHRM.org/podcasts. Have a great day.